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I Need Input About Factory Made Change To The CB72/77s
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bill440cars
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Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 276
Location: Arkansas

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:17 am    Post subject: I Need Input About Factory Made Change To The CB72/77s Reply with quote

I have had some experience with the CB72 Hawk & CB77 Super Hawk, years ago. But now, I started gathering up parts, to build myself one, my way and I found that, there were 2 different designs of the top plate of the motor, that bolts to the top of the head and provides the upper motor mount, to the frame. Could someone enlighten me as to when Honda went from the one design, to the other? Also, I know there were 2 different forks, which included 2 different front fenders (as far as mounting). But I am not clear as to when that change was made. And if there were any other changes made, that I should know about, when looking at parts, for this build. The frame I have, that I will be using, for my Street build, is a 1964. I have a top plate handy, but it is built different (appears to be an earlier model that 1964. I do have a couple of motors & a few more parts, but they are about 2 hours away, at a buddy's place. Hoping to be able to get them here soon. So, any input on changes that I need to be aware of, when looking for parts, would be greatly appreciated. I can only guess that the older top plate, came from an older CB77 that I picked up on and disassembled.


Thanks, for whatever input I can get. Bill

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LOUD MOUSE
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Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 7732
Location: KERRVILLE, TEXAS

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:53 pm    Post subject: Re: I Need Input About Factory Made Change To The CB72/77s Reply with quote

A parts book can/will in most cases show what changes were made over time.
If you can describe what each top has that is different we will be able to help. ....................lm



bill440cars wrote:
I have had some experience with the CB72 Hawk & CB77 Super Hawk, years ago. But now, I started gathering up parts, to build myself one, my way and I found that, there were 2 different designs of the top plate of the motor, that bolts to the top of the head and provides the upper motor mount, to the frame. Could someone enlighten me as to when Honda went from the one design, to the other? Also, I know there were 2 different forks, which included 2 different front fenders (as far as mounting). But I am not clear as to when that change was made. And if there were any other changes made, that I should know about, when looking at parts, for this build. The frame I have, that I will be using, for my Street build, is a 1964. I have a top plate handy, but it is built different (appears to be an earlier model that 1964. I do have a couple of motors & a few more parts, but they are about 2 hours away, at a buddy's place. Hoping to be able to get them here soon. So, any input on changes that I need to be aware of, when looking for parts, would be greatly appreciated. I can only guess that the older top plate, came from an older CB77 that I picked up on and disassembled.


Thanks, for whatever input I can get. Bill
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bill440cars
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Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 276
Location: Arkansas

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well,
my question is about the plate that bolts onto the top of the cylinder head & has 2 bolts to mount the upper part of the engine, to the frame. I didn't realize that there must be 2 different configurations, to put the 2 bolts through. And so, besides have the standard long bolt, through the forward mount hole in that mount plate, the rear provision, to put the rear bolt through, was made for 2 different length bolts. My frame, that I was using, for my "Mock Up", is a 1964 frame & this plate doesn't have a provision to put the shorter bolt though. And it won't even fit up in place, because of the frame tabs, for the rear bolt, are back by the rear edge of that top plate.

I will try to attach a photo tomorrow, to better show what I am talking about. I'm not always good, at describing in typed comments.


As far as the forks and front fender mounting goes, I knew there were 2 different ones, because of the design of the fork legs, but I wasn't sure what year, they were redesigned. I am just trying to get it straight, in my head, as to the differences made, along the way, with the CB77s, so I don't accidentally get a wrong fender or whatever.


Thank you, for your efforts. Bill

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G-Man
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Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 5543
Location: Derby, UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill

Nice to have you back!

Some pictures would be useful. There are more than two types of cam cover / motor mount so it is difficult to work out your problem without some images. There are, at least, two - maybe three for the 1961 bikes, so I understand the problem. Best to just physically match your motor to the frame etc. Don't forget the CL and CA - that adds a lot more variations.....

On the forks - the fender changed to the last (well, the one before the chrome one) when the fork bottoms changed from steel to alloy so identification should be pretty easy. The early one has a cranked centre stay, the later one is straighter. I have both if you need photos. I think the change was around 1966 (LM will confirm) but we didn't get any later CB72/77 in teh UK so I don't have much evidence.

The CMS site is handy as they are good at tracking the part number changes.

When I saw your name come up I thought we were going to re-start the oil debate!!!

G



bill440cars wrote:
Well,
my question is about the plate that bolts onto the top of the cylinder head & has 2 bolts to mount the upper part of the engine, to the frame. I didn't realize that there must be 2 different configurations, to put the 2 bolts through. And so, besides have the standard long bolt, through the forward mount hole in that mount plate, the rear provision, to put the rear bolt through, was made for 2 different length bolts. My frame, that I was using, for my "Mock Up", is a 1964 frame & this plate doesn't have a provision to put the shorter bolt though. And it won't even fit up in place, because of the frame tabs, for the rear bolt, are back by the rear edge of that top plate.

I will try to attach a photo tomorrow, to better show what I am talking about. I'm not always good, at describing in typed comments.


As far as the forks and front fender mounting goes, I knew there were 2 different ones, because of the design of the fork legs, but I wasn't sure what year, they were redesigned. I am just trying to get it straight, in my head, as to the differences made, along the way, with the CB77s, so I don't accidentally get a wrong fender or whatever.


Thank you, for your efforts. Bill

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'60 C77 '60 C72 '62 C72 Dream '63 CL72
'61 CB72 '64 CB77 '65 CB160
'66 Matchless 350 '67 CL77
'67 S90 '77 CB400F
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LOUD MOUSE
honda305.com Member


Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 7732
Location: KERRVILLE, TEXAS

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Each bike DREAM, SCRAMBLER and SUPER HAWK have different Cylinder Head Covers.
The SCRAMBLER issue has 1 Long bolt at the front and the others have 2 bolts.
The Super Hawk has a long bolt at front and a short one at the rear.
The Dream has 2 long bolts. .........................lm


bill440cars wrote:
Well,
my question is about the plate that bolts onto the top of the cylinder head & has 2 bolts to mount the upper part of the engine, to the frame. I didn't realize that there must be 2 different configurations, to put the 2 bolts through. And so, besides have the standard long bolt, through the forward mount hole in that mount plate, the rear provision, to put the rear bolt through, was made for 2 different length bolts. My frame, that I was using, for my "Mock Up", is a 1964 frame & this plate doesn't have a provision to put the shorter bolt though. And it won't even fit up in place, because of the frame tabs, for the rear bolt, are back by the rear edge of that top plate.

I will try to attach a photo tomorrow, to better show what I am talking about. I'm not always good, at describing in typed comments.


As far as the forks and front fender mounting goes, I knew there were 2 different ones, because of the design of the fork legs, but I wasn't sure what year, they were redesigned. I am just trying to get it straight, in my head, as to the differences made, along the way, with the CB77s, so I don't accidentally get a wrong fender or whatever.


Thank you, for your efforts. Bill
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LOUD MOUSE
honda305.com Member


Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 7732
Location: KERRVILLE, TEXAS

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are correct and you just many have. .....:-)..............lm

G-Man wrote:
Bill

Nice to have you back!

Some pictures would be useful. There are more than two types of cam cover / motor mount so it is difficult to work out your problem without some images. There are, at least, two - maybe three for the 1961 bikes, so I understand the problem. Best to just physically match your motor to the frame etc. Don't forget the CL and CA - that adds a lot more variations.....

On the forks - the fender changed to the last (well, the one before the chrome one) when the fork bottoms changed from steel to alloy so identification should be pretty easy. The early one has a cranked centre stay, the later one is straighter. I have both if you need photos. I think the change was around 1966 (LM will confirm) but we didn't get any later CB72/77 in teh UK so I don't have much evidence.

The CMS site is handy as they are good at tracking the part number changes.

When I saw your name come up I thought we were going to re-start the oil debate!!!

G



bill440cars wrote:
Well,
my question is about the plate that bolts onto the top of the cylinder head & has 2 bolts to mount the upper part of the engine, to the frame. I didn't realize that there must be 2 different configurations, to put the 2 bolts through. And so, besides have the standard long bolt, through the forward mount hole in that mount plate, the rear provision, to put the rear bolt through, was made for 2 different length bolts. My frame, that I was using, for my "Mock Up", is a 1964 frame & this plate doesn't have a provision to put the shorter bolt though. And it won't even fit up in place, because of the frame tabs, for the rear bolt, are back by the rear edge of that top plate.

I will try to attach a photo tomorrow, to better show what I am talking about. I'm not always good, at describing in typed comments.


As far as the forks and front fender mounting goes, I knew there were 2 different ones, because of the design of the fork legs, but I wasn't sure what year, they were redesigned. I am just trying to get it straight, in my head, as to the differences made, along the way, with the CB77s, so I don't accidentally get a wrong fender or whatever.


Thank you, for your efforts. Bill
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bill440cars
honda305.com Member


Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 276
Location: Arkansas

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOUD MOUSE wrote:
Each bike DREAM, SCRAMBLER and SUPER HAWK have different Cylinder Head Covers.
The SCRAMBLER issue has 1 Long bolt at the front and the others have 2 bolts.
The Super Hawk has a long bolt at front and a short one at the rear.
The Dream has 2 long bolts. .........................lm


bill440cars wrote:
Well,
my question is about the plate that bolts onto the top of the cylinder head & has 2 bolts to mount the upper part of the engine, to the frame. I didn't realize that there must be 2 different configurations, to put the 2 bolts through. And so, besides have the standard long bolt, through the forward mount hole in that mount plate, the rear provision, to put the rear bolt through, was made for 2 different length bolts. My frame, that I was using, for my "Mock Up", is a 1964 frame & this plate doesn't have a provision to put the shorter bolt though. And it won't even fit up in place, because of the frame tabs, for the rear bolt, are back by the rear edge of that top plate.

I will try to attach a photo tomorrow, to better show what I am talking about. I'm not always good, at describing in typed comments.


As far as the forks and front fender mounting goes, I knew there were 2 different ones, because of the design of the fork legs, but I wasn't sure what year, they were redesigned. I am just trying to get it straight, in my head, as to the differences made, along the way, with the CB77s, so I don't accidentally get a wrong fender or whatever.


Thank you, for your efforts. Bill


Oh, okay, I didn't realize that the Scrambler had it's own top cover, with only the long bolt. That is what I currently have on my "Mockup" motor that I was trying to put in the 1964 Super Hawk Frame. My problem was that I don't have all of my Super Hawk
Stuff home yet. And I knew about the change to allow fork legs, just wasn't sure when it happened. The "Top Plate" (Cam Cover) issue threw me, because I had not seen any of those covers, except for the mid 1960's Super Hawk ones.

Thanks Guys. I know that you all will straighten me out, when I come up with Questions. I had dealt mostly with a Hawk and some with the Super Hawk. BTW, I have seen several motorcycle forums go away, over time and sure glad that we still have Honda 305 around. ;-)

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