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Clutch slippage woes....

 
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danielzink
honda305.com Member


Joined: 11 Jan 2017
Posts: 74
Location: Lansing, MI

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:57 pm    Post subject: Clutch slippage woes.... Reply with quote

So yeah...

I'm the guy that always points people to the "best practices" threads when it comes to clutch issues...

And now here I am facing my own..

I guess I really haven't put many miles on the bike since I put the new clutch in so this may have been happening all along...

But this weekend was the first time to put any real miles on it.

I have adjusted...and adjusted...and gone back and read....and then re-adjusted...

I've had the clutch to the point that when you put it into gear the bike wants to creep - so I know the clutch is fully engaged and there's nothing holding it "slightly" open.

First and second gear are "okay" when shifting into third and really bad in fourth...when you gas it at speed (40+mph) it acts as if the clutch lever is getting pulled in...the bike starts revving and the clutch is definitely slipping.

If I press the rear brake pedal and "load" the clutch (obviously without pulling in the lever) it'll start to bring the engine r's down...and then I can feel the clutch start to grab and all of a sudden it'll act like a normal clutch and be boggy and I keep a steady throttle....work my way back up to 50ish and all of a sudden - it start slipping again..

Trying to get this sorted before the 29th - I have a buddy that wants to ride it in the Detroit DGR....<fingers crossed>

Dan
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rustywrench
honda305.com Member


Joined: 10 May 2009
Posts: 456
Location: Lake Stevens Wa

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:50 pm    Post subject: clutch issues Reply with quote

Dan,
Without knowing your history with these bikes I will throw this out to you. The wrong oil will let the clutch slip and sometimes the springs get weak. Oil should not have a friction modifier in it and my experience with Suzuki intruders tells me that weak springs can do it too. Barnett makes an aftermarket spring that is stronger and I saw some on ebay the other day,
.. My 2 cents, hope it helps. Rusty
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danielzink
honda305.com Member


Joined: 11 Jan 2017
Posts: 74
Location: Lansing, MI

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm..

Can't remember if I filled it with 10w30 regular oil or 20w50 synthetic (high zinc) VR1

I wondered about heavier springs...

The Barnett units you mention ?....just eBay search ca77 clutch spring ?

edit: found these ? - 22401-323-003

Thanks, Dan


Last edited by danielzink on Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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rustywrench
honda305.com Member


Joined: 10 May 2009
Posts: 456
Location: Lake Stevens Wa

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:51 am    Post subject: clutch issues Reply with quote

At the risk of setting off a train wreck of a thread about oil, I do suspect the type of oil you may have in there. Honda, back in the day, recommended 30w non detergent but many here will say it isn't good enough. If you used a car motor oil, that is the cause for the slipping clutch. Drain it and replace it with a multi weight motorcycle oil made for the wet clutch and I will bet a days pay the slipping will go away. I'm old school and prefer the 30w non detergent. Just sayin'. Rusty
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Tim Allman
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Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 300
Location: Guelph, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: clutch issues Reply with quote

rustywrench wrote:
At the risk of setting off a train wreck of a thread about oil, I do suspect the type of oil you may have in there. Honda, back in the day, recommended 30w non detergent but many here will say it isn't good enough. If you used a car motor oil, that is the cause for the slipping clutch. Drain it and replace it with a multi weight motorcycle oil made for the wet clutch and I will bet a days pay the slipping will go away. I'm old school and prefer the 30w non detergent. Just sayin'. Rusty


Modern motorcycle oils are wet clutch friendly. As for wanting a non-detergent oil, perhaps you should read this https://www.volvoclub.org.uk/engine_oil_history.shtml.

The only reason not to use a detergent oil is if the engine is already loaded with sludge from long term use of non-detergent oil. SAE 30 should be fine as long as you don't start it on cold days when it's below freezing. However, the only non-detergent SAE 30 oil that I've seen is of low quality, generally sold for lawn mowers etc.
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danielzink
honda305.com Member


Joined: 11 Jan 2017
Posts: 74
Location: Lansing, MI

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well today my level of frustration has reached a new high...

I truly do not know where to turn at this point.

The day started with draining the oil and refilling with a straight SAE 30wt.

I fired the bike up and instantly I could tell things were worse.

I realize that 30 seconds worth of riding aren't going to make a difference - but whatever has been going on got exponentially worse over night.

Anyhow.

So...I decided to go for a ride.

Again...I have heeded Loudmouse's advice to the tee.

I have 1/4 of free play at the lever etc etc.

The bike was basically unrideable.

Luckily I live in a fairly rural area so I have plenty of backroads to meander on.

It was like the clutch was halfway pulled in the entire time.

Slippage wasn't the word for it. Any gear....I could barely make 20/30mph.

The bike would just rev out over the clutch.

I could adjust the cable while I was riding to the point where I had a ton of play at the lever - so again - I know the clutch is fully engaged.

After approximately a half hour of this folderol I made my way back home...

Drastic measures they say....

I decided to tear the bike down.

By noon this was where I was at:







I took all the clutch plates out (yes...carefully noting each one's location as well as the wires etc)

And safety-cleaned everything - followed by brake-Kleen.

Verified (by removing then re-installing) the ball bearing in the clutch adjuster.

While I was at it - for good measure I cleaned the oil slinger (just seemed prudent to do)

The fiber plates looked okay. The steels showed no signs of overheating.

Re-assembled. Verified that all cables/rods/spring were working smoothly....

Another fresh quart and a half of SAE 30....

Nothin'....failure.

Slippage to the max.

Another half hour on the back roads - finally parked it in defeat...

Have I fouled the fiber plates so badly that they just won't come back now ?

I need suggestions.

Thanks !

Dan
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rustywrench
honda305.com Member


Joined: 10 May 2009
Posts: 456
Location: Lake Stevens Wa

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:01 pm    Post subject: clutch issues Reply with quote

looks like I just lost a days pay which ain't much these days. I do know that with the extra parts heap in the back of my shop I would definitely go with a different set of plates. Just sayin'. Rusty
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