Clutch slipping slightly... adjustment... replacement...???

[rzgkane]

Ok, I am admittedly confused. First off, my clutch has begun to slip a bit and I'm thinking I may have to dive in and see what I can do to fix it. The clutch engages very late and not really very affirmatively, yet I still have the proper amount of cable free play and the clutch action feels good. I would prefer to have the new stuff ready to go in when I open it up and I have some questions about what parts I should obtain. Honda seems to still sell the springs and 020 plates.

As an introduction, I have to ask whether, after clutch adjustment using the shop manual and Loud Mouse method, it is incorrect for the alignment of the adjuster notch to be at the 3:00 position and not in line with the notch in the case? Logic tells me that the adjuster's notch cannot ALWAYS align with the case's notch simply because it will be in different positions based upon the condition of the clutch friction plates, right? Correct me if I'm wrong here. I have seen a Honda bulletin in the Bill Silver materials that shows as "incorrect" an adjuster mark that is barely at the 12:30 position. Does the position of the adjuster mark indicate that I have lost friction disk thickness?



IMG_0651 by rzgkane, on Flickr

Next, I am totally confused about friction plates and will ask a series of questions that hopefully someone will take the time to answer for me:

1. How many friction plates do I need? The same number as I took out? I read the excellent write up posted here about friction plates and the like but I still am confused.

2. Can I dictate how many to use since, as the original poster said, Honda used 4, 5 and 6 plate setups?

3. If I currently have 6 and want to use 5, do I need to use a thicker plate?

4. I have a parts motor in the garage and its clutch is a 5 friction disk setup, with each friction disk being real close to 3.85mm in thickness. This is far below the time-to-replace spec I saw in the Bill Silver materials. But could that spec pertain to a 4 disk setup and therefore the plates will each be thicker than the plates in my motor's 5 plate setup?

Lastly, the spec sheet from Bill Silver's materials shows the friction plate standard of 4.8-4.9 and the repairing limit of "4.4 less." What the heck does this mean in plain English? If the plates are below 4.4 they need replacing? Or can they wear down 4.4mm to a thickness of .4 before they need replacing (I would be surprised if this is the case)?

Sorry for all the questions but I am a new but willing owner of a Dream and really want to get this bike running right for at least a moment in time.

[teazer]

LM's the man to answer most of that, but let me try to get things started. The adjuster slot is usually around the three o'clock position with a stock set up in my experience. If it's far from there it suggests maybe the push rod is worn or the ball is missing.

It is a very coarse thread screw and a small radial change makes a big difference.

Or perhaps it's screwed in too far.

You mention that the clutch engages when the lever is almost home. That sounds as if it's incorrectly adjusted. The way I do it is to loosen the cable off and then use the large adjuster on the side. I rotate it to just touch the push rod and then back it out slightly. I want to feel a small amount of free play at that end.

Then I'll go ahead and adjust the cable free play.

If the large screw is turned in too far, it's still easy to get the cable with the right amount of free play, but the clutch is slipping. You must get the motor end right first in my experience.

I'd focus on that first before you bend your brain in a knot working out clutch plate pack thicknesses. The way I do clutch packs is to start with the specs and add them up. So if there are 4 steels Xmm thick and 4 fibers Ymm thick that should add up to a number. Do the same with minimums and you will have a number say 20mm stock and 19.2mm service limit for the total pack. Those numbers are just to illustrate the point. I don't have the real data in front of me. If your clutch pack is less than that service limit, something is worn or missing or maybe the wrong plates were fitted at some time.

When we have to change a whole pack and stock is not an option, we may have to use two A steels or two thin steel plates in place of a stock thick steel plate or whatever?

In your case none of that should be necessary. It should be OK to measure the pack and decide if you need new plates.

Another thing to think about is oil. If you used oil with "friction modifiers" or molyslip, that may be enough to make your clutch slip. Honda for example have two lois one with moly and one without. The one without is better for our bikes in my opinion.