CA77 & CL77 KIckstart Knuckle repair

G-Man · Post by **G-Man** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:32 pm

CLs and CAs have a 'knuckle' to connect the kickstart pedal to the kickstart shaft. Honda's design creates a stress-raiser where cracks form. The crack always starts from the corner of the slot where it meets the internal spline.

Most of the knuckles I have dismantled have this crack and the parts are a) hard to find and b) expensiver if you do.

To stop the crack (in case it still runs below the surface) I drill a hole.

Then, I grind out the crack as deep as I dare. (you don't want to destroy the splines).

With that done, the crack can be welded up.

For a machining 'fixture' I mount the knuckle on a piece of an old, worn-out kickstart shaft.

A minor miracla was that one of the three parts here had now cracks at all. I think it was the first perfect one I have found. These three will get a clean and polish and will go off for chrome plating.

G

Seadog · Post by **Seadog** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:53 pm

Nicely done; thanks for the pics.

the-chauffeur · Post by **the-chauffeur** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:53 am

Just saw this. Nicely done . . . and thanks for the tip-off.

Quick question(s) - is there anything preventative that can be done to the knuckles to stop them from cracking, or is it something you just sorta pray doesn't happen? I've had a look at one of mine and it's fine; I'll need to pull the other one apart to check that later. And when do you tend to notice the cracks appear - is it something you find when you start rebuilds or d'you inspect for this sort of thing regularly?

I'm having to repair one or two of the results of some of the other interesting design choices Honda worked through with the 250/305's in the '60's. The rear brake switch mount on the CL77 is a particular favourite . . .

Cheers

G-Man · Post by **G-Man** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:48 pm

If the knuckle hasn't cracked then rounding out the end of that slot with a file or a drill of suitable size will extend the life.

Likewise, a hole drilled at the end of any crack will stop it spreading.

It's not a regular maintenance thing. Most of them have held out for 50 years or so....

G

the-chauffeur wrote:Just saw this. Nicely done . . . and thanks for the tip-off.

Quick question(s) - is there anything preventative that can be done to the knuckles to stop them from cracking, or is it something you just sorta pray doesn't happen? I've had a look at one of mine and it's fine; I'll need to pull the other one apart to check that later. And when do you tend to notice the cracks appear - is it something you find when you start rebuilds or d'you inspect for this sort of thing regularly?

I'm having to repair one or two of the results of some of the other interesting design choices Honda worked through with the 250/305's in the '60's. The rear brake switch mount on the CL77 is a particular favourite . . .

Cheers

LOUD MOUSE · Post by **LOUD MOUSE** » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:24 pm

On the clutch side of the case is a Large Black bolt. "BOLT, KICK STARTER STOPPER"
At the Pawl End of the Kick Shaft is where the Bolt will Stop the Shaft if the Kick Lever isn't installed properly.
With the CB72/77 being Forward Kick you Must time the gears properly and the Shaft End will not hit the Bolt.
For the C/CA72/77 and CL72/77 the Kick lever MUST be at 11:00 angle and it will Arc to Straight Down and hit the Foot peg to Stop.
There are those who thinking they will get MORE SWING of the lever by placing the Lever at
1:00 or 2:00 will in fact Make the Shaft Hit the Bolt and Crack the Kick Starter Joint or worst yet Break the Splines off the Shaft.
Imagine the POWER you are applying to those parts if you stop the shaft before you are at the bottom of the arc. ........................lm

the-chauffeur wrote:Just saw this. Nicely done . . . and thanks for the tip-off.

Quick question(s) - is there anything preventative that can be done to the knuckles to stop them from cracking, or is it something you just sorta pray doesn't happen? I've had a look at one of mine and it's fine; I'll need to pull the other one apart to check that later. And when do you tend to notice the cracks appear - is it something you find when you start rebuilds or d'you inspect for this sort of thing regularly?

I'm having to repair one or two of the results of some of the other interesting design choices Honda worked through with the 250/305's in the '60's. The rear brake switch mount on the CL77 is a particular favourite . . .

Cheers

the-chauffeur · Post by **the-chauffeur** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:58 am

Thanks gents. Very helpful.

I've managed to get lucky with one but not so much with the other. The CL77, which has 12k miles on it, has a spline that's intact and not cracked. The CA77, on the other hand, has a crack despite only having 4k on it.

I'm going off to round out the CL fork end. With no electric start, it's more important that knuckle lasts as long as possible . . .

danielzink · Post by **danielzink** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:19 am

LOUD MOUSE wrote:On the clutch side of the case is a Large Black bolt. "BOLT, KICK STARTER STOPPER"
At the Pawl End of the Kick Shaft is where the Bolt will Stop the Shaft if the Kick Lever isn't installed properly.
With the CB72/77 being Forward Kick you Must time the gears properly and the Shaft End will not hit the Bolt.
For the C/CA72/77 and CL72/77 the Kick lever MUST be at 11:00 angle and it will Arc to Straight Down and hit the Foot peg to Stop.
There are those who thinking they will get MORE SWING of the lever by placing the Lever at
1:00 or 2:00 will in fact Make the Shaft Hit the Bolt and Crack the Kick Starter Joint or worst yet Break the Splines off the Shaft.
Imagine the POWER you are applying to those parts if you stop the shaft before you are at the bottom of the arc. ........................lm

the-chauffeur wrote:Just saw this. Nicely done . . . and thanks for the tip-off.

Quick question(s) - is there anything preventative that can be done to the knuckles to stop them from cracking, or is it something you just sorta pray doesn't happen? I've had a look at one of mine and it's fine; I'll need to pull the other one apart to check that later. And when do you tend to notice the cracks appear - is it something you find when you start rebuilds or d'you inspect for this sort of thing regularly?

I'm having to repair one or two of the results of some of the other interesting design choices Honda worked through with the 250/305's in the '60's. The rear brake switch mount on the CL77 is a particular favourite . . .

Cheers

Just to be clear Ed...

After looking at countless pictures of Dreams online..

With regards to the pictures below.

Please comment:

Thanks, Dan