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Electronic ignition

Points Based Ignition | Electronic Ignition Upgrade
modelman
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Electronic ignition

Post by modelman » Mon May 09, 2016 3:18 pm

Considering converting from points to electronic, but all the units I find seem to have an inductor-ring fastened to the points-cam, triggering a pair of pick-ups, so my question is this, how does the 'electronic' system control the advance & retard? That inductor-ring seems to be still connected to that crappy mechanical springs & weights setup.

If the advance assembly is stuffed, its going to defeat the advantage of electronic isn't it ??
All my other bike electronic systems have rpm controlled advance built-in, (no mechanical).

As I said, its my interpretation, & I may have got it all wrong, can some of you gurus put me right please.
That said, what's the one to go for & best place to get it.
GSX1400 Red/silver
GSX1400 Blue
GS1000G
Brockhouse Corgi
CB77
CA77
T140
BSA 250

I DO have to grow old, I DO NOT have to grow up.

cknight
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Post by cknight » Mon May 09, 2016 4:28 pm

The no longer available Probe ignition and the Charlie's Place ignition still use the points cam/springs/weights for the advance curve. The Sachse ignition (neat piece) from Germany is crank triggered, with choices of pre-programmed advance curves. Both the Charlie's and the Sachse units require a voltage regulator/rectifier to prevent harmful voltage spikes that could damage the ignition. The Probe unit was fine with the usual rectifier. Regards, Chase

Phil-UK
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Post by Phil-UK » Fri May 13, 2016 1:17 pm

Hi - I've had the Sasche system fitted for quite a few years now and although not cheap it is very good.

They were at the Classic Show at Stafford ( UK ) last month and I had the chance to ask them about a few things:

1) Replacement alloy rotor that carries the magnets.
There is a central boss that mounts to the end of the crank outside the alternator rotor, then the disc that carries the magnets can be rotated on the boss to set the timing using the LEDs on the PCB and locked in place by 3 small allen screws fitted radially.
However, as I've had mine off several times the heads of the allen screws have deformed ( they are very small ) so now I have to rotate the whole thing and then tighten the bolt going into the crank.
I asked if this was available separately and the answer is yes and a price of @£16 was quoted for the disc alone - good to know.

2) Range of Advance
I use curve #9 which gives 40 degrees of advance with the timing being set at TDC. This works fine and gives better response in the 4000-6000 RPM range but I have now tried setting the timing at the F mark so when strobed it is closer to the 45-48 degree advance Honda quote - this seems to give an improvement above 7000 RPM.
They were surprised that the engine runs that much advance but said it was no problem to reprogram the black box to give 45 degrees of advance and if desired alter the range to give the best of both worlds. This may not be possible on the very first boxes ( which mine may be ) but I may order a new system for another bike and ask them to program it as above.

3) Need to cut a slot in the engine cover.
Their website says you will probably have to cut a slot in the cover as the wires from the PCB leave facing out. This means distrurbing the timing everytime you remove the cover.
Guy on the stand said he'd spoken to someone that morning who had managed to route the wires under the cover - don't know how as there is no clearance between the cover and the circular alternator cover but seems someone has figured it out.


Hope this helps

Phil

Steve8638
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Post by Steve8638 » Fri May 13, 2016 9:49 pm

Phil-
I'm interested in the Sachse unit also for my 66 CB77.
Did you have to remove the existing advance mechanism in applying this?
I guess this would mean dropping the engine and removing the weights and springs.
Thanks.
Steve

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G-Man
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Post by G-Man » Sat May 14, 2016 2:25 am

You don't have to remove it but the advance unit and points become completely redundant.

G
'60 C77 '60 C72 '62 C72 Dream '63 CL72
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Phil-UK
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Post by Phil-UK » Sat May 14, 2016 2:33 am

Hi Steve - the Sasche system can be fitted without disturbing the original A/R points etc.. as it all sits outside of the alternator. See their website for pictures.

All you swap is the wiring to the coils ( leaving the condensers disconnected ) and mine is set so I can swap back to the points set-up at the roadside if required.

The major benefits of the Sasche system in use ( IMHO ) are:-

1) Better tick over: they drop the timing to almost TDC once started ( see their webpage ) to stabilise the tick over and its rock steady.
2) Improved pulling power in the rev ranges where the CB72 can suffer; there is a climb on the motorway near Brighton that is hard work running points unless you are flat out in 3rd, but with the Sasche it pulls well at @5000RPM in top and can hold 60 MPH.
3) Precision of the timing: the reason I bought it was because my A/R and camshaft rivets had worn so much I was getting almost 50 degrees of advance. So if set to start easily it was too far advanced and if set at full advance it wouldn't start.

If you have a good A/R unit and everything works fine then its hard to justify the cost but I wasn't in that situation.

cheers

Phil

jensey
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Post by jensey » Sat May 14, 2016 3:29 am

Here also a Sachse user (CB72)

Why electronic ignition ? does the bike doesn't run good with the points?
I chose for electronic ignition, not because it's electronic, but because of the pick-up from the crank.
assembly of Japanese motorcycles requires great peace of mind (Pirsig)

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