John,
I agree with the KISS concept but at times our quest for simple can end up getting in the way. If you are going to split the cases, then you really should remove all hardware and check all systems along the way. Under the clutch is shift apperatii that would need to be at least partially disconnected so why not get it out of the way. But for now I don't see the need to split.
If I've read your last post right, you've used a shim as a scraper to dig the rust from between. Brilliant idea I must say. So now you are down to the rings and I hate to say it but ya ain't goin' past that point. This rust seal will so doubt be present the entire surface of the piston. Most of mine were that bad. If you've removed that much rust from the top, then you may very well be able to do that very thing from the bottom and oh yeah, we're back to the cases. You may have enough room to get some long scrapers in there. Just some thoughts floating around.
For heat I use a cheap heat gun I got from Harbor Freight. Hold it on the fins and move it front to back of the barrels. Just not too long in one place on that aluminum.
At any rate, this engine isn't gonna give up without a fight. So don't give up and resort to TNT. One way or another it will give up. Keep up the good work. RW
Splitting The Cases ??
Well, a couple things:
I probably will go ahead and take off the clutch basket and drive sprocket; just out of curiosity, and heck, I'm in there already...it's kind of like the technique my dentist uses... The scraper is easy enough to make; take a wire coat hanger and cut it to the length you want, then pound out the tip to a very thin flat shape - a little bit of shop blacksmithing...hook a loop in the end for easy manipulation, and there you have it... But how about this idea...? Since I don't have a puller (for some reason I have nearly every hand-tool known to man in my shop, but no puller! Or a press, for that matter...go figure...:), I was thinking about building a simple wooden frame bolted to the table surface over the pistons as they sit in their cylinders; then, using a bottle jack/ car jack bolted to that frame, upside down over the pistons, pump the jack shaft down onto the piston head, and see if I can't get them to move - add a lot of lube ( can you ever use too much...? :) and keep on pumping...Like I said, right now it's just an idea...but if I do this, is it possible to do one piston at a time, or am I going to need / should I have two jacks? Meaning, will pressing one piston make the two work in unison? I think I have a 90 degree engine, not the 180, meaning both pistons move together when they're operating properly, right? But I'm thinking my little bit of redneck engineering Should work...it's essentially a home-made press... The only thing I have for heat right now is a propane torch, and I don't think aluminum fins like all that live heat...but what about heating the piston liners...? They might be able to take it, and expand a bit... So let's say I do pop the case open; what then? Any idea how much room I'll have to get to the underside of the pistons? It sounds like you've been in there before, and therefore have a sense of how much room I'll have....and even if I do, I don't think scraping is going to do all that much good. If I can't get to the rusted rings from above, hitting it from below doesn't seem like it will do much good either. The more I think about it, my 20 lb sledge and a Paul Bunyan swing is sounding better and better...but I don't think I'll do that...primer cord, maybe....:) Actually, I'm leaning towards the redneck press idea. I'll get it, somehow..I just wonder who'll be President then....I will keep you posted. -John
John,
I do love a good challenge, thus my personal interest in your case. I love the Yankee ingenuity with the coat hanger probe. My thinking was that if you could do it on top then you may benefit from doing same from the bottom. That rust does go to the bottom of the pistons I'm afraid. So it's not just the rings stuck. Years of rust build-up has created a lot of pressure between these parts. So if you can get your probe in through the crank to the bottom of the pistons and do the same rust removal from that angle you may save yourself a lot of grief. Your redneck press may well work but be advised you could snap the flange off the sleeve and drive the sleeve through the block. And as far as both pistons, Yes both yours move in unison. If ya have two jacks, would work better. WHEEEEEEEEEEEEW, boy, this is tough. RW
crankJohn,
This is how little room you have from the bottom but I do believe it is doable.Keep up the faith. Rw
Why not use the method of the steering wheel puller?A method I used an engine with a stuck piston was to get the timing chain off by grinding a link off if the clip was not accessible.then I used a heat gun and then I took a big pair of channel locks or pipe wrench on the rotor and had at it.Now I did not care if I damged the rotor since I had extras so that is a down side.Once I got it moving I put blocks of wood in as spacers as I went.
Hi Rw; thanks for the pic; it gives me some idea of what I have to work with...and that's not to scale, is it...? :)
I'll get in there and poke around, but without being able to go around the whole piston, it might be rather difficult... "...be advised you could snap the flange off the sleeve and drive the sleeve through the block." You think it will take that much pressure? Joe, that's the thing: I don't have a puller, although I suppose I could rustle one up somewhere...but I certainly don't have any spare 46 year old rotors laying about, so I think I need to proceed cautiously, for Now, at least... Once more into the breach, dear friends... "What do you mean it doesn't work? Hit it again..." -J Robert Oppenheimer, Los Alamos National Laboratory Nuclear Testing Facility, White Sands, NM, June, 1944
HA!! VICTORY IS MINE!!
So I'm out in the garage taking off the clutch, rotor, and assorted pieces and wound up stripping out one of the bolts holding the little brass round thing on the side of the case the rotor is attached to; finally, after what I thought was WAAY too long, I finally get it out and turn my attention to the pistons...I'm pounding on the cases, trying to find SOME way to crack this nut so I can get in there...the garage is very warm, the case is tighter than a clam at low tide, and I'm not getting anywhere... I only have about a half-inch gap between the block and the cylinder head, and it's not budging. I get pissed and just start banging the cylinder head up and down on the block, using the rotor magnet to rotate the cylinders...and the pistons look different; deeper than they were... Naaaah, it's gotta be me....screw it; it's not going to get any broker....BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!......and with each BANG I see the pistons geting deeper, and deeper, and deeper in the cylinders...'AH-HA! I have you now, bee-yotch"! Finally, I have almost the whole pistons exposed and run out of gap; the gap gets too wide....I shim it up and keep banging away, to coin a phrase...and finally the cylinder head just lifted away! No opening the cases, no fumbling around with skinny metal picks, just 'voila'! My pistons were not rusted to the cylinders; one was more or less glued to the cylinder with what looked like brown tar, most probably a witches brew of old oil, Marvel Mystery Oil, dirt, and other assorted crap. The other was okay, but couldn't move because it's twin was stuck to the wall of the cylinder...and it was Sticky stuff, too! I got the pistons apart no problem, and found what *I think* caused the problem in the first place: the left piston head had a crack / stress fracture in it on the top outside edge of it, the flat part that makes contact with the head when the piston travels up for combustion; there was also three good nicks or dents in it in that area. I could see where a bit of it had rubbed itself shiny against the cylinder, but the cylinders themselves are unmarked...smooth as a baby's bottom, so I think they are still good. The other piston is in great shape, or appears to be. So I guess I'm looking for a spare piston...I'm going to check the "good" piston and all the rings as soon as I can figure out how to get them off the pistons - they don't want to budge either, so I'm going to soak them in some seriously strong parts cleaner I have (I have a feeling they are 'glued' to the pistons as well...) and compare them with the specs in the manual and see if I can reuse them; I also know I should get new ones, and I want to, but being out of work sucks; so if anybody has a good piston and/or ring set they don't want or need, let me know if you'd like to work something out... So anyway; not to blabber on, but that's how I finally freed my pistons; the flanges are just fine, and other than a lot of clanging, now I get to put it all back together again...as soon as I get enough to get the parts, that is... One question: while I was examining the rotor, I noticed there was a very little bare spot on one of the magnets; I could see a bit of copper wiring showing through, and by 'very little' I mean probably 2/3rds the size of a paper match head, IF that big. All the rest were wrapped nicely and appeared to be in good shape - is this going to bring bad karma to me later on? Yes, ideally it would be great to have them rewrapped, but that probably isn't going to happen right now...I'm hoping to just rebuild the engine and see if it works - again, after I dig up the parts... But I DID IT!! WHOOO-HOOOOOOO! :) -John
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