My CA77 has bit the dust. It went clunk when I took off from a stop light, and that was all she wrote. Engine was locked up.
I finally decided that I wasn't ever going to find the time to break it apart and get it sorted, so I had a guy at a local shop that works on vintage bikes take a look at it.
Apparently, the clunk was due to a screw backing out of the sprag clutch and hitting the case.
But the kicker is that apparently that was the least of the issues they found in there. Pistons pretty roached, chains need replacing. So even if I were to do all of this myself (if I, say, magically found the time), I'm still talking quite a hefty bit in parts.
So here I am: I've spent way way more on this than it's worth already, in terms of how much it might have cost to buy one that already had these things sorted out. Purchase price + parts + some previous work + more parts. But it's titled and registered.
I'm thinking that at this point, finding another motor might be more cost effective than rebuilding this one. But I'm open to suggestion.
Anybody care to throw in their two cents?
honda305.com Forum
Vintage Honda Owners, Restorers, Riders and Admirers
305 motor is dead
What's a sprag clutch? What is the engine VIN? CA77E etc. How many miles on the engine/trany?
I would lean toward rebuilding depending on the severity of damage. Anything else you buy will be 40+ years old too. At least if you rebuild it you'll know what's in there. These are relatively simple engines. Parts can be expensive, but most are available new or good used. If you can't do the work yourself, I would suggest hiring someone from this forum. Many of the members have a lot of experience with these engines and know their idiosyncrasies (never tried to spell that before), what really needs to be replaced, what you can live with, etc. A "modern-day" motorcycle tech may well do a good job, but will cost a lot more.
There's my .02!
I would lean toward rebuilding depending on the severity of damage. Anything else you buy will be 40+ years old too. At least if you rebuild it you'll know what's in there. These are relatively simple engines. Parts can be expensive, but most are available new or good used. If you can't do the work yourself, I would suggest hiring someone from this forum. Many of the members have a lot of experience with these engines and know their idiosyncrasies (never tried to spell that before), what really needs to be replaced, what you can live with, etc. A "modern-day" motorcycle tech may well do a good job, but will cost a lot more.
There's my .02!
Sprag clutch is the starter (roller) clutch.
I agree with 48lesco. If you sort this one out it will be good for a while. If you buy another you may be back to square one in a couple of months. By all means buy a spare engine to rob parts from. That will help keep the ultimate cost down.
G
I agree with 48lesco. If you sort this one out it will be good for a while. If you buy another you may be back to square one in a couple of months. By all means buy a spare engine to rob parts from. That will help keep the ultimate cost down.
G
'60 C77 '60 C72 '62 C72 Dream '63 CL72
'61 CB72 '64 CB77 '65 CB160
'66 Matchless 350 '67 CL77
'67 S90 '77 CB400F
'61 CB72 '64 CB77 '65 CB160
'66 Matchless 350 '67 CL77
'67 S90 '77 CB400F
REbuild?
I noticed you are in DC. You're not the one causing all those deficits back there are you? JK.
Before making that decision, it would seem that you would need a complete list of everything that needs to be replaced, then figure out the budget to buy the parts and install.
Is your transmission okay? Cases still good? Do you know what your compression was like before it quit.
Pistons and cylinders/rebore can get spendy, but I have found some good pistons on ebay for pretty cheap and liners., too
If your head needs to be rebuilt, that won't be cheap. Pretty easy to assess though.
The only way to know whether you want to pay what it will take is to make a realistic budget. That will take some time and research. As you have found in the past, there is a lot of help available from this forum. I have read several of your posts over the last few years and always enjoyed it when you had success. Sounds like you unfortunately are in for a few more trials. I for one am cheering for you.
Before making that decision, it would seem that you would need a complete list of everything that needs to be replaced, then figure out the budget to buy the parts and install.
Is your transmission okay? Cases still good? Do you know what your compression was like before it quit.
Pistons and cylinders/rebore can get spendy, but I have found some good pistons on ebay for pretty cheap and liners., too
If your head needs to be rebuilt, that won't be cheap. Pretty easy to assess though.
The only way to know whether you want to pay what it will take is to make a realistic budget. That will take some time and research. As you have found in the past, there is a lot of help available from this forum. I have read several of your posts over the last few years and always enjoyed it when you had success. Sounds like you unfortunately are in for a few more trials. I for one am cheering for you.
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Dr. Frankenstein
- honda305.com Member
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- Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:11 pm
- Location: Charlottesville, VA
IMO, fixing it yourself wouldn't be all that hard; it's winter time anyway, and as long as you have someplace warm, it might actually be a pretty good way to while away the cold.
Pistons can be a bit tricky to find, but they ARE out there; starters, too (and for a lot less than the pistons! :) And there's plenty of rings available...cam chains, too....
The head comes apart easily enough, and as long as you have a long punch the camshaft and assorted parts come out easily, too. (Just remember HOW you got them out - it's a bit of a puzzle going back in...
Splitting the cases and getting to the inner guts appears pretty strightforward, although I've never done it...I just replaced my entire head, pistons and rings, including the camshaft and rockers, and as long as you have the Parts, 48lesco is right: they ARE pretty simple engines. The connecting rods appear to be a bit Trickier and expensive to find, (If indeed you need new ones), but the measurement specs to see if they are okay can be found in the manual...
New gasket sets on the 'Bay for, like, $38....
Harbor Freight sells a pretty good mechanics dial and stand for, like, $20-30 if you want to be able to measure everything...
GMan is right, too: its good to have a spare donor engine laying around; and I think there are a few on the 'Bay right now...either that, or try Sports Linkup.com.
Getting a modern-day mechanic to do it?? Think of the phrase "Lets Talk Financing"; usually if it's over 10 years old, they won't touch 'em.
Do It Yourself?? The cost of parts and the knowledge you gain...plus all the good times spent in the garage figuring it out and rebuilding it, and the payoff - hearing it run! :)
"Even a bad day in the garage is better than a good day at work", as I like to say...:)
Again, just my opinion...
John
Pistons can be a bit tricky to find, but they ARE out there; starters, too (and for a lot less than the pistons! :) And there's plenty of rings available...cam chains, too....
The head comes apart easily enough, and as long as you have a long punch the camshaft and assorted parts come out easily, too. (Just remember HOW you got them out - it's a bit of a puzzle going back in...
Splitting the cases and getting to the inner guts appears pretty strightforward, although I've never done it...I just replaced my entire head, pistons and rings, including the camshaft and rockers, and as long as you have the Parts, 48lesco is right: they ARE pretty simple engines. The connecting rods appear to be a bit Trickier and expensive to find, (If indeed you need new ones), but the measurement specs to see if they are okay can be found in the manual...
New gasket sets on the 'Bay for, like, $38....
Harbor Freight sells a pretty good mechanics dial and stand for, like, $20-30 if you want to be able to measure everything...
GMan is right, too: its good to have a spare donor engine laying around; and I think there are a few on the 'Bay right now...either that, or try Sports Linkup.com.
Getting a modern-day mechanic to do it?? Think of the phrase "Lets Talk Financing"; usually if it's over 10 years old, they won't touch 'em.
Do It Yourself?? The cost of parts and the knowledge you gain...plus all the good times spent in the garage figuring it out and rebuilding it, and the payoff - hearing it run! :)
"Even a bad day in the garage is better than a good day at work", as I like to say...:)
Again, just my opinion...
John
Re: REbuild?
Thanks for all of the good advice, I'm still mulling over my options. There are a lot of considerations to balance - it would be so much easier to deal with had I more time and no other bikes to contend with!
I hear you guys on rebuilding this one so that I know it's right versus finding another that may or may not be solid. When I bought this, it supposedly had a "recently rebuilt" motor (which, from the condition of the internals, apparently wasn't the case). Actual mileage unknown.
I recently bought a house with a small attached garage - no power in there (no heat/light) but I could run extensions from the basement pretty well. The ultimate intention is for the garage to be for things that run, and the basement to be a useable workshop, but that setup is at least a year off - there are too many parts of the main house that are higher priority. As far as the garage goes right now, it's crammed full of parts and non-running bikes.
I do, however, have access to a proper MC shop - lifts, tools, shop supplies, vendors accounts. The catch is that my day job has me working long hours, and the house keeps my evenings and weekends pretty crammed. But as a resource, the shop is there should I find time to use it (it's owned by friends who are very very good to me, and for that I am extremely lucky). That's where the Dream is now, someone at the shop took the engine apart for some diagnosis, since it's been there since October and I haven't had a minute to work on it. I have yet to see it in person to take a proper inventory of what I'm looking at in terms of parts, and I'm not sure when I'll find the time to do so.
Were this my only bike in need of work, I'd settle down for a good winter's worth of learning. But at this point, I have a small stable of things that don't run. Some of them need just a few hours' worth of attention, some are in pieces. So there's the tension: not enough time to do everything myself, but too much to do in total to be able to afford to pay someone else to do it all.
I've always liked doing my own work (my background is in old Italian Vespas and Lambrettas, with some Zundapp action recently added in for shits and giggles), but I am not the greatest mechanic - the things I can do have only really sunk into my brain through lots of repetition (I've had to split the cases three times on one of my Vespas recently, I might be able to do that in my sleep now). I feel a little handicapped with the Dream because I've never worked on one before - I don't know off the top of my head what it's supposed to look like in there. But again, time time time. I guess I'm trying to figure out, what do I want more: to do it myself and risk it taking forever, or to have it done and get to ride it.
I'm tempted to look for a parts bike with a motor, but right now I'm afraid that I don't really have space for another carcass. Although I guess I could cross that bridge when I come to it? Would it be crazy to think I could immediately break it down, use what I need, and try and consolidate the remaining parts?
Parts bike vs. just a donor motor? Here's another question - are the 305 motors at all interchangeable? If I find an engine, must it be from a CA77?
I guess the next step is to get there with my camera and take a proper inventory of what I'm looking at. It's killing me to think about the expense that's going to be involved no matter what, but I really do want to get back to riding it. For the few miles we got to spend together, I was a happy gal.
I hear you guys on rebuilding this one so that I know it's right versus finding another that may or may not be solid. When I bought this, it supposedly had a "recently rebuilt" motor (which, from the condition of the internals, apparently wasn't the case). Actual mileage unknown.
I recently bought a house with a small attached garage - no power in there (no heat/light) but I could run extensions from the basement pretty well. The ultimate intention is for the garage to be for things that run, and the basement to be a useable workshop, but that setup is at least a year off - there are too many parts of the main house that are higher priority. As far as the garage goes right now, it's crammed full of parts and non-running bikes.
I do, however, have access to a proper MC shop - lifts, tools, shop supplies, vendors accounts. The catch is that my day job has me working long hours, and the house keeps my evenings and weekends pretty crammed. But as a resource, the shop is there should I find time to use it (it's owned by friends who are very very good to me, and for that I am extremely lucky). That's where the Dream is now, someone at the shop took the engine apart for some diagnosis, since it's been there since October and I haven't had a minute to work on it. I have yet to see it in person to take a proper inventory of what I'm looking at in terms of parts, and I'm not sure when I'll find the time to do so.
Were this my only bike in need of work, I'd settle down for a good winter's worth of learning. But at this point, I have a small stable of things that don't run. Some of them need just a few hours' worth of attention, some are in pieces. So there's the tension: not enough time to do everything myself, but too much to do in total to be able to afford to pay someone else to do it all.
I've always liked doing my own work (my background is in old Italian Vespas and Lambrettas, with some Zundapp action recently added in for shits and giggles), but I am not the greatest mechanic - the things I can do have only really sunk into my brain through lots of repetition (I've had to split the cases three times on one of my Vespas recently, I might be able to do that in my sleep now). I feel a little handicapped with the Dream because I've never worked on one before - I don't know off the top of my head what it's supposed to look like in there. But again, time time time. I guess I'm trying to figure out, what do I want more: to do it myself and risk it taking forever, or to have it done and get to ride it.
I'm tempted to look for a parts bike with a motor, but right now I'm afraid that I don't really have space for another carcass. Although I guess I could cross that bridge when I come to it? Would it be crazy to think I could immediately break it down, use what I need, and try and consolidate the remaining parts?
Parts bike vs. just a donor motor? Here's another question - are the 305 motors at all interchangeable? If I find an engine, must it be from a CA77?
I guess the next step is to get there with my camera and take a proper inventory of what I'm looking at. It's killing me to think about the expense that's going to be involved no matter what, but I really do want to get back to riding it. For the few miles we got to spend together, I was a happy gal.
My vintage bike habit might indeed be a contributing factor. But please don't tell anyone!conbs wrote:I noticed you are in DC. You're not the one causing all those deficits back there are you? JK.
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KellieLyyne
- honda305.com Member
- Posts: 263
- Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:36 pm
- Location: Santa Rosa California
Susan, it sounds like your mind is pretty fried due to overload. Maybe what you should do, is find a place to park the Dream. Come back to it in the spring when your not so overloaded. Things have a way of working out, and it will seem a lot clearer when you let the dust settle. If you decide to get rid of it now, you might regret it later. So my suggestion is take some time, mull it over, and then decide when everything isn't so crazy. (just my opinion). I know space is an issue, but before you off it, you should be SURE that's what you want to do.