Dynojet A/F Meter

[brewsky]

Brewski,
From what I have seen over the years, the floats could be out by 3-5mm and owners wouldn't notice it.

Both you and Jensen are searching for perfection and we know how obsessive and all consuming that can be.

What I'd suggest/request is that you set the floats say 3mm low (fuel level high) and test your bike's Lambda and performance.

Then raise the floats/drop fuel level 1mm at a time and repeat and tell us what the effect is on A:F and what differences you can measure.

The hypothesis is that the measured performance difference will be negligible but the A:F will show changes (not serious though) and that the rider will detect changes in rideability.

Teazer,
Thanks for the reply, and I do apologize for my obsession, but it is still there.
I have already set the float (by mistake) 4mm too low (fuel level high), and the bike was so blubbery rich it would hardly run...plugs black as coal.
Set it back to "normal" (26.5 from gasket surface?), but I could never get the idle mix above 12, even with the air screw all the way out.
Set it to 26.5 from the body notch and lowered the needle to mid position, and the air screw will now adjust the idle mix ok. (I know you can't change 2 things and expect to figure out which one caused the difference)
I had thought I eliminated the float height from the AFR tuning variables, but maybe not.

[LOUD MOUSE]

sorry. .................lm

Brewski,
From what I have seen over the years, the floats could be out by 3-5mm and owners wouldn't notice it.

Both you and Jensen are searching for perfection and we know how obsessive and all consuming that can be.

What I'd suggest/request is that you set the floats say 3mm low (fuel level high) and test your bike's Lambda and performance.

Then raise the floats/drop fuel level 1mm at a time and repeat and tell us what the effect is on A:F and what differences you can measure.

The hypothesis is that the measured performance difference will be negligible but the A:F will show changes (not serious though) and that the rider will detect changes in rideability.

Teazer,
Thanks for the reply, and I do apologize for my obsession, but it is still there.
I have already set the float (by mistake) 4mm too low (fuel level high), and the bike was so blubbery rich it would hardly run...plugs black as coal.
Set it back to "normal" (26.5 from gasket surface?), but I could never get the idle mix above 12, even with the air screw all the way out.
Set it to 26.5 from the body notch and lowered the needle to mid position, and the air screw will now adjust the idle mix ok. (I know you can't change 2 things and expect to figure out which one caused the difference)
I had thought I eliminated the float height from the AFR tuning variables, but maybe not.

[brewsky]

OK!
Not saying ya " Need More Than a Simple Answer". HUH!
But ta me ya are "just as another" (member who has gone on to another bike) who seems to like to project ideas and show pics to do no more than continue a simple carb adjustment!!!!!!!!!
Will ya ever Get On The Bike And Ride It??????
Maybe there will be a future after all with those carbs!!!!!!!!!!!!!. ......lm

The notch in the PW22 carb body is there as when Yasshi installed the float and used the HONDA tool all carbs were correct and would work as designed.
Ya can bend the FLOAT Things to what if any angle ya like (by now many have been changed from issue) and as long as ya have the correct MM and tang correct the dern things WILL WORK.
Too much on this subject for me.
Just use YOUR BRAIN and less ????????????????????.
PLEASE. ..............LM

Bend the tab?. ......lm

Jensen,
Here are my measurements for both your parallel arm method and the line of sight method (at least as I understand them)

Note the measurements are taken from the carb body cutout and not the gasket surface.

Your parallel arm method, if measured from the gasket surface, gives very close to 26.5mm.

Closer measurement reveals there is a 2.2mm difference between the gasket surface and body cutout reference points.

Both are with float tang touching but not depressing the float valve.

LM,
I have bent the tab and tried it both ways, and it results in different float heights:

one .......26.5mm from cutout notch...(float lines up with jet holder)

and the other......26.5mm from the gasket surface.... (float below the jet holder, but float arm parallel with carb body)

There is a 2.2mm difference in the measurement starting point (cutout notch vs gasket surface) so there has to be the same difference in the float heights if you use the same spec distance for the measurement. (26.5mm for PW22 carbs)

In 2009, I asked what I thought was a simple question:
http://www.honda305.com/forums/viewtopi ... ight=float
Got an answer that I thought made sense and went with it.
Hundreds of posts later, the same question was getting asked and debated over and over.
Then e3Steve posted his sticky of how to make a carb guage, and my previous belief went all to pieces.
Answers like "just use the line of sight and don't worry about it", "just get the arm level with the body and don't worry about it", and "get the correct MM and tang correct" just don't answer the question.
There is at least 2.2 mm difference in float height depending on which answer to the question is correct, and if that difference is not significant, then I'll quit worrying about it.

LM,
I don't know what your issue with me or my posts are......but to answer your questions...

I don't know who you are referring to as the other member who moved on, but I haven't, and don't plan on it

I rode my Dream today, yesterday and the day before that, and have worn a new rear tire out in the past year or so. It is my favorite bike for short trips, and I do a lot of them.

I have learned a lot from this forum's members, and try to give back when I can, and pictures say a lot more than words in my opinion.

I don't claim to be an expert by any means, and I do try to learn something new every day.

[LOUD MOUSE]

"""""""""""I do apologize for my obsession, but it is still there."""""""""" OK??????!!!!!!!!
Go ride the thing and if ya don't for some reason have knowledge of that other person (Ya can read tuning questions/problems) which ARE THE SAME AS YOUR CARB ISSUES) and is possible as to why I am OVERLOADED with the fact that a couple of the EXPERTS have offered info on the carb subject and ya act as tho ya don't understand.
CARBS are mechanical and as ya are able to read my description and then offer SO MANY pics and "I did this and that" I'd think by now ya would be able to SET THE FLOAT and go ride.
More on this forum than I are tired of this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. ...........lm

OK!
Not saying ya " Need More Than a Simple Answer". HUH!
But ta me ya are "just as another" (member who has gone on to another bike) who seems to like to project ideas and show pics to do no more than continue a simple carb adjustment!!!!!!!!!
Will ya ever Get On The Bike And Ride It??????
Maybe there will be a future after all with those carbs!!!!!!!!!!!!!. ......lm

The notch in the PW22 carb body is there as when Yasshi installed the float and used the HONDA tool all carbs were correct and would work as designed.
Ya can bend the FLOAT Things to what if any angle ya like (by now many have been changed from issue) and as long as ya have the correct MM and tang correct the dern things WILL WORK.
Too much on this subject for me.
Just use YOUR BRAIN and less ????????????????????.
PLEASE. ..............LM

Bend the tab?. ......lm

Jensen,
Here are my measurements for both your parallel arm method and the line of sight method (at least as I understand them)

Note the measurements are taken from the carb body cutout and not the gasket surface.

Your parallel arm method, if measured from the gasket surface, gives very close to 26.5mm.

Closer measurement reveals there is a 2.2mm difference between the gasket surface and body cutout reference points.

Both are with float tang touching but not depressing the float valve.

LM,
I have bent the tab and tried it both ways, and it results in different float heights:

one .......26.5mm from cutout notch...(float lines up with jet holder)

and the other......26.5mm from the gasket surface.... (float below the jet holder, but float arm parallel with carb body)

There is a 2.2mm difference in the measurement starting point (cutout notch vs gasket surface) so there has to be the same difference in the float heights if you use the same spec distance for the measurement. (26.5mm for PW22 carbs)

In 2009, I asked what I thought was a simple question:
http://www.honda305.com/forums/viewtopi ... ight=float
Got an answer that I thought made sense and went with it.
Hundreds of posts later, the same question was getting asked and debated over and over.
Then e3Steve posted his sticky of how to make a carb guage, and my previous belief went all to pieces.
Answers like "just use the line of sight and don't worry about it", "just get the arm level with the body and don't worry about it", and "get the correct MM and tang correct" just don't answer the question.
There is at least 2.2 mm difference in float height depending on which answer to the question is correct, and if that difference is not significant, then I'll quit worrying about it.

LM,
I don't know what your issue with me or my posts are......but to answer your questions...

I don't know who you are referring to as the other member who moved on, but I haven't, and don't plan on it

I rode my Dream today, yesterday and the day before that, and have worn a new rear tire out in the past year or so. It is my favorite bike for short trips, and I do a lot of them.

I have learned a lot from this forum's members, and try to give back when I can, and pictures say a lot more than words in my opinion.

I don't claim to be an expert by any means, and I do try to learn something new every day.

[brewsky]

"""""""""""I do apologize for my obsession, but it is still there."""""""""" OK??????!!!!!!!!
Go ride the thing and if ya don't for some reason have knowledge of that other person (Ya can read tuning questions/problems) which ARE THE SAME AS YOUR CARB ISSUES) and is possible as to why I am OVERLOADED with the fact that a couple of the EXPERTS have offered info on the carb subject and ya act as tho ya don't understand.
CARBS are mechanical and as ya are able to read my description and then offer SO MANY pics and "I did this and that" I'd think by now ya would be able to SET THE FLOAT and go ride.
More on this forum than I are tired of this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. ...........lm

OK!
Not saying ya " Need More Than a Simple Answer". HUH!
But ta me ya are "just as another" (member who has gone on to another bike) who seems to like to project ideas and show pics to do no more than continue a simple carb adjustment!!!!!!!!!
Will ya ever Get On The Bike And Ride It??????
Maybe there will be a future after all with those carbs!!!!!!!!!!!!!. ......lm

The notch in the PW22 carb body is there as when Yasshi installed the float and used the HONDA tool all carbs were correct and would work as designed.
Ya can bend the FLOAT Things to what if any angle ya like (by now many have been changed from issue) and as long as ya have the correct MM and tang correct the dern things WILL WORK.
Too much on this subject for me.
Just use YOUR BRAIN and less ????????????????????.
PLEASE. ..............LM

Bend the tab?. ......lm

Jensen,
Here are my measurements for both your parallel arm method and the line of sight method (at least as I understand them)

Note the measurements are taken from the carb body cutout and not the gasket surface.

Your parallel arm method, if measured from the gasket surface, gives very close to 26.5mm.

Closer measurement reveals there is a 2.2mm difference between the gasket surface and body cutout reference points.

Both are with float tang touching but not depressing the float valve.

LM,
I have bent the tab and tried it both ways, and it results in different float heights:

one .......26.5mm from cutout notch...(float lines up with jet holder)

and the other......26.5mm from the gasket surface.... (float below the jet holder, but float arm parallel with carb body)

There is a 2.2mm difference in the measurement starting point (cutout notch vs gasket surface) so there has to be the same difference in the float heights if you use the same spec distance for the measurement. (26.5mm for PW22 carbs)

In 2009, I asked what I thought was a simple question:
http://www.honda305.com/forums/viewtopi ... ight=float
Got an answer that I thought made sense and went with it.
Hundreds of posts later, the same question was getting asked and debated over and over.
Then e3Steve posted his sticky of how to make a carb guage, and my previous belief went all to pieces.
Answers like "just use the line of sight and don't worry about it", "just get the arm level with the body and don't worry about it", and "get the correct MM and tang correct" just don't answer the question.
There is at least 2.2 mm difference in float height depending on which answer to the question is correct, and if that difference is not significant, then I'll quit worrying about it.

LM,
I don't know what your issue with me or my posts are......but to answer your questions...

I don't know who you are referring to as the other member who moved on, but I haven't, and don't plan on it

I rode my Dream today, yesterday and the day before that, and have worn a new rear tire out in the past year or so. It is my favorite bike for short trips, and I do a lot of them.

I have learned a lot from this forum's members, and try to give back when I can, and pictures say a lot more than words in my opinion.

I don't claim to be an expert by any means, and I do try to learn something new every day.

I'm sorry you are tired of it, but no one is forcing you to read or reply.

Judging from the number of hits and replies to just this post subject, I don't think everyone else is either.

Whenever I think that my posts are uninteresting, uninformative, unappreciated, or tiring, I will gladly sign off this forum and ride off into the sunset.

In the meantime I will continue to ask questions about what I don't know, and offer opinions about what I do.

[LOUD MOUSE]

I would think by now ya could have received more than one correct reply as to how to set a carb float.
My way is for the 305 carbs and not a PW22. ................lm

"""""""""""I do apologize for my obsession, but it is still there."""""""""" OK??????!!!!!!!!
Go ride the thing and if ya don't for some reason have knowledge of that other person (Ya can read tuning questions/problems) which ARE THE SAME AS YOUR CARB ISSUES) and is possible as to why I am OVERLOADED with the fact that a couple of the EXPERTS have offered info on the carb subject and ya act as tho ya don't understand.
CARBS are mechanical and as ya are able to read my description and then offer SO MANY pics and "I did this and that" I'd think by now ya would be able to SET THE FLOAT and go ride.
More on this forum than I are tired of this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. ...........lm

OK!
Not saying ya " Need More Than a Simple Answer". HUH!
But ta me ya are "just as another" (member who has gone on to another bike) who seems to like to project ideas and show pics to do no more than continue a simple carb adjustment!!!!!!!!!
Will ya ever Get On The Bike And Ride It??????
Maybe there will be a future after all with those carbs!!!!!!!!!!!!!. ......lm

The notch in the PW22 carb body is there as when Yasshi installed the float and used the HONDA tool all carbs were correct and would work as designed.
Ya can bend the FLOAT Things to what if any angle ya like (by now many have been changed from issue) and as long as ya have the correct MM and tang correct the dern things WILL WORK.
Too much on this subject for me.
Just use YOUR BRAIN and less ????????????????????.
PLEASE. ..............LM

Bend the tab?. ......lm

Jensen,
Here are my measurements for both your parallel arm method and the line of sight method (at least as I understand them)

Note the measurements are taken from the carb body cutout and not the gasket surface.

Your parallel arm method, if measured from the gasket surface, gives very close to 26.5mm.

Closer measurement reveals there is a 2.2mm difference between the gasket surface and body cutout reference points.

Both are with float tang touching but not depressing the float valve.

LM,
I have bent the tab and tried it both ways, and it results in different float heights:

one .......26.5mm from cutout notch...(float lines up with jet holder)

and the other......26.5mm from the gasket surface.... (float below the jet holder, but float arm parallel with carb body)

There is a 2.2mm difference in the measurement starting point (cutout notch vs gasket surface) so there has to be the same difference in the float heights if you use the same spec distance for the measurement. (26.5mm for PW22 carbs)

In 2009, I asked what I thought was a simple question:
http://www.honda305.com/forums/viewtopi ... ight=float
Got an answer that I thought made sense and went with it.
Hundreds of posts later, the same question was getting asked and debated over and over.
Then e3Steve posted his sticky of how to make a carb guage, and my previous belief went all to pieces.
Answers like "just use the line of sight and don't worry about it", "just get the arm level with the body and don't worry about it", and "get the correct MM and tang correct" just don't answer the question.
There is at least 2.2 mm difference in float height depending on which answer to the question is correct, and if that difference is not significant, then I'll quit worrying about it.

LM,
I don't know what your issue with me or my posts are......but to answer your questions...

I don't know who you are referring to as the other member who moved on, but I haven't, and don't plan on it

I rode my Dream today, yesterday and the day before that, and have worn a new rear tire out in the past year or so. It is my favorite bike for short trips, and I do a lot of them.

I have learned a lot from this forum's members, and try to give back when I can, and pictures say a lot more than words in my opinion.

I don't claim to be an expert by any means, and I do try to learn something new every day.

I'm sorry you are tired of it, but no one is forcing you to read or reply.

Judging from the number of hits and replies to just this post subject, I don't think everyone else is either.

Whenever I think that my posts are uninteresting, uninformative, unappreciated, or tiring, I will gladly sign off this forum and ride off into the sunset.

In the meantime I will continue to ask questions about what I don't know, and offer opinions about what I do.

[jensen]

Hi,

The parallel way work with both carbs, actually all older carbs from Honda build this way, because the carburettor guys designed it with a standard set of design rules. When designing a pivot this way (were the float is connected to the body), everything is in balance, wear is low, displacement is almost linear and no shear at small angles. That's why you will find in almost every Honda manual, explaining how to set the floats, the same principle and the same illustrations, check your manual, and it doesn't matter which older Honda bike it is.

I'm a very lazy guy when it comes to remembering idiot figures, data and specified distances, I like logic and generic because it's simple. Honda designers also knew the KISS rule too,

Jensen