I've been watching this post to see when it would get to this point. So here's the (current) gospel according to Honda:
For engine#0100001 thru #0109755 you need a quantity of 6 part #22201-MK2-000
This part # was replacement for 22201-268-010(no longer available) which supercedes to
part #22201-268-020 which was originally specified for engine #1012460 and above for
a quantity of 5. It is correct that both the MK2 and 268 will work on any of the clutch baskets as long as the number of plates is accordingly followed. I have a 1967 CB77 and replaced the clutch with 5 #22201-268-020 plates(yes, they're aluminum) last April. I must say that it is a marked improvement over the Barnett plates that someone had installed previously(very short lived).
Of course this is all assuming that the clutch basket and center are the ones that came in your bike originally. If some previous shade tree mechanic replaced a broken clutch with one from another bike and then proceeded to install the wrong number of plates, or wrong combination of steel and fiber, as you can see this complicates things further.
As far as the wire rings go Honda only specifies a Qty of 2 with no further differentiation. Get to know your own clutch intimately. Mine has none.
For the steel plates there is an "A" plate and 5 "B" plates listed for a total 0f 6, both with varying part numbers which overlap to some degree along the engine # chronology. The clutch basket and center both have a very convoluted part # history. As I said before, get to know your clutch intimately and don't order anything until you have.
As far as Vesrah or EBC clutch kits go, the only feedback I can give you is that I've never had any BAD feedback. Neither of these companys plates are competition style plates, which is the problem with Barnetts. No body seems to realize that although they are very "grabby" you only get a few good races, then you replace them. So of course, there's alot of negative feedback from people who are doing regular street riding and expecting a longer life from there clutch. They are what they are. Remember that anything you install on your bike that has "competition" characteristics is bound to have some sort of negative ramifications for the "street" rider some where down the road. Tires are either sticky or long lasting. Handlebars and rearsets are either sporty or comfortable. Cams and carburators give you either performance or reliabilty. Just like the size of your sprockets, there is always a trade off. I have no illusions of taking home any trophys other than "best in show" or something similar. Nobody is impressed by the speed of these bikes anymore, just the sight of one being ridden in good condition. I'm sorry, maybe I'm just a stick in the mud, but I just can't see any valid reason to "hop-up" a CB77. It just invites unhappiness and frustration.
Unless, of course, you're a dedicated vintage racer. And that gets us into a whole other can of worms involving mental stability! Just kidding.
If you've made it this far, thank you for paying attention to my thoughts and I hope you glean something useful from it, or at least a good laugh!
Joe
Clutch plates: What's the difference?
When I replaced the discs in my clutch I bought 5 fiber discs from I buy-I sell on e-bay. Once it was assembled I found the clutch would not engage. After a bit of head scratching and looking at the parts book I figured that there was simply not enough material in the basket. All it took was another fiber disc and another steel disc (6 fiber and 5 steel). I do have to say the guys at I buy- I sell were real good about it, they gave me the 6th disc. So that is where I came up with the information. Just a quark? Who knows, it worked very well when done. Steve Greer
I must say that some of this info is correct but some in my opinion is not.
Keep in mind that I am offering my info with GREASY HANDS. NOT ONLY BOOK INFO. HONDA somewhere in time made a TYPO as to the numbers of Friction Disc. (and on different bike models also) I have split and parted out arount 50 of the C/CA/CB/CL72/77 engines (1961 thru 1967) and have yet to find a 6 Friction Disc. assembly. (IF YOUR NUMBERS ARE CORRECT FOR THE PARTICULAR engine you found your data there would have been APX. 9,755 of those clutches in engines) I think I would have had one by now. I have found several of the EARLY 4 Friction Disc., 4 Clutch Plate B clutches. (not listed in any HONDA parts data I've seen) These Early Clutches had VERY THICK Friction Disc. and the earlist one I found didn't have grooves in the Center Peice for ANY WIRES. The Disc, are so thich that even 5 won't fit in the assembled clutch much less 6. The other Early Clutches did have grooves for 2 wires and a VERY THIN (same as the thin steel Plate A) as the first installed Plate in all of them. HONDA then Changed the First Steel Plate with a Thicker Plate. The reason was that the Thin First Plate would Bend/Warp back from the First Friction Disc. and the clutch would slip. So HONDA replaced that Dics. with a Disc. which was for all purposes was Twice as Thick as the first issue. (we found we could install 2 of the first issue plates and get the same fix.) The new Steel Disc. caused a parts installation problem. The New part being thicker would not allow either of the WIRES to be installed because the Grooves in the Center Peice Grooves were covered with Disc. (so we left them out) When looking at the parts books you will see the Centers were changed several times. ( I have 5 different Centers in my shop) As I have found the Centers. (first 0 grooves, second 2, third 3, forth 2 grooves but the first wire groove placed so the thicker steel plate wound fit (allow the wires to be installed), fifth is the Cush Clutch that on the outside had the same makeup as 4 but a sort of rim around the shaft area. (all the parts of the Cush Clutch are different than any previous clutch.) The Friction Disc. (total cork/plastic) I have found have been in 2 thicknes. The friction area was not wide enough tp use all the area of the Steel Disc. and the Pressure Plate. This along with Springs which were not strong enough for the Power the engine developed caused us to Install the Washers from Spark Plugs under the Spring Bolt Washer. This cure caused the Lever Pressure to be such that after a long ride your left hand really hurt. (ask me how I know) Honda changed that Spring with one which has One End Painted White. (other than the CYB springs that is the one to use) HONDA changed the cork/plastic disc. to one with an Aluminum Core and thicker (almost twice the original) Friction Area. (this is the one to have) Most of the 1966 and all of the 1967 bikes came with this and the White Painted Springs) When ya order Disc. now you do get the MK2 issue which has the Aluminum Core but back the the Thinner Friction Area.??????????? Over all the years I can find only a couple of Clutch Outers. (the second is the Cush issue and one doesn't want to put it in Carb Cleaner becaue unlike the first issue it will COME APART) It is assembled with Neoprene parts inside to soften any vibration. (I think that was the intention) I have found that when HONDA changed the Center and you have the newer one you DID WANT to INSALL THE WIRES because they do something which helps shifting at low speeds. I now put the Pressure Plate and Outers in my lathe and make them round.because you would be amazed how totally Out of Round they are and they were never Balanced before installation. I gave a sort of info class at one of the VJMC meetings in Tenn. some years back and I exibited many of the parts changes done to these engines over time. You really would be surprised how many changes were made to the same part over the 7 years. Excludeing any previous 1961 bikes. As I started I offer this as what I find/found as my hands get/got Greasy. ...........lm
Mouse thanks for the detailed info.I took apart 5 of the 305 engines for parts and a 250 engine also.The 250 had "4" very thick disks in it.The others all had 5 disks.As I had posted earlier I did get 5 of the 4 mm fiber disks for my clutch .But something you had stated reminded me that when I tried to put my first clip on after the first fiber disk I had a hard time getting it in the groove.Almost no room to get it in, but when I did get it in the fiber disk was extremely hard to move which I felt was not how it should be.I figure this may cause hard shifting also.I think 'll print your post out and put it in my shop book with all the other info I have gotten.thanks
L.M. and all, Damn! I wish I had taken a picture of my clutch set-up. I did have to install 6 of the fiber discs and 5 plates to make my clutch work. It wouldn't engage otherwise. I admit I made the mistake of ordering these discs off Evil-Bay and not looking at what I had first. So I replaced the aluminum center discs with the older(?) style fiber. MY MISTAKE,but....it worked,,well. So with all due respect Ed(and I really mean that) In my case that is what worked! Steve Greer
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