Question about Timing

[LOUD MOUSE]

You must have good luck keeping that area calm enough (engine is not timed so will have a lot of vibration) to get a screwdriver on the screw and then have the timing stay where you started to tighten the plate screw as the fact when you tighten the screw it will warp the plate and either advance or retard that points timing.
This is the reason (plus many folks don't have or know how to use a timing light) I have offered the simple and effective to do the "in your garage" points adjustments.
Granted I am aware that once my idea is used it can be fine tuned with a timing light as now all that is required is to adjust the plate a couple thousands.
Ever heard "your carburetor problem is in direct proportion to the miss adjustment of your points?. . . ...............lm

Yes, Like I said both cylinder must be the same at full advance. After you set the points @ .014 on the right side adjust the points plate till you get the total timing set between the two marks and lock it down, then check the left side and adjust only the L points gap till it reads the same as the right. Its easy.

Tim

Do you use it to set each set while the engine is running?. ............lm

Yes, your advance spring maybe a little weak, but as long as the timing isn't jumping around at idle your OK. I do like to see the timing at idle as close to F as posible, but that's not always possible because of wear on the advancer stops. The most important thing for me is that the total timing at full advance say above 3500 RPM reads between the two full advance marks on both cylinders. No matter what it is idles. This is why I always use the strobe timing light. More often than not if you only set the timing for idle it will over advance the total timing at full throttle and sieze the pistons. The timing light is the cheepest insurance you can buy.

Tim

Ok, I get it. So if you could run the engine at like 500rpms it would be very close to the F mark, but when I'm idling at 1500 rpms, it's going to be a bit past the F mark.

So you use the strobe to make sure it doesn't advance too much at full advance. Is the case mark supposed to be in the middle of those two advance lines or before?

thanks.

[Tim Miller]

Ed,
It's not that difficult. Try it sometime. It just takes a #2 phillips, flat blade and a not so rare timing light to do the job right. It's not brain surgery or rocket science. But at the end of the simple testing you will know exactly were your timing is. And were Mr. Honda and all his engineers desgned it to be. If you need more help understanding this feel free to PM me so I can help you. You should really consider revising your tuneup recipe to actually use the trusty timing light. If even one member tunes up there motor without verifing what there total timing is.....thats just asking for disaster.

Tim

You must have good luck keeping that area calm enough (engine is not timed so will have a lot of vibration) to get a screwdriver on the screw and then have the timing stay where you started to tighten the plate screw as the fact when you tighten the screw it will warp the plate and either advance or retard that points timing.
This is the reason (plus many folks don't have or know how to use a timing light) I have offered the simple and effective to do the "in your garage" points adjustments.
Granted I am aware that once my idea is used it can be fine tuned with a timing light as now all that is required is to adjust the plate a couple thousands.
Ever heard "your carburetor problem is in direct proportion to the miss adjustment of your points?. . . ...............lm

Yes, Like I said both cylinder must be the same at full advance. After you set the points @ .014 on the right side adjust the points plate till you get the total timing set between the two marks and lock it down, then check the left side and adjust only the L points gap till it reads the same as the right. Its easy.

Tim

Do you use it to set each set while the engine is running?. ............lm

Yes, your advance spring maybe a little weak, but as long as the timing isn't jumping around at idle your OK. I do like to see the timing at idle as close to F as posible, but that's not always possible because of wear on the advancer stops. The most important thing for me is that the total timing at full advance say above 3500 RPM reads between the two full advance marks on both cylinders. No matter what it is idles. This is why I always use the strobe timing light. More often than not if you only set the timing for idle it will over advance the total timing at full throttle and sieze the pistons. The timing light is the cheepest insurance you can buy.

Tim

Ok, I get it. So if you could run the engine at like 500rpms it would be very close to the F mark, but when I'm idling at 1500 rpms, it's going to be a bit past the F mark.

So you use the strobe to make sure it doesn't advance too much at full advance. Is the case mark supposed to be in the middle of those two advance lines or before?

thanks.

[akpasta]

Ok, so as usual things in practice are never as simple as in theory, although maybe I am needlessly complicating them.

I used the timing light to move the points plate so that the right side points where full advanced between the two advance lines. Of course moving the plate moves the points timing in opposite directions (i forgot this). So it became necessary to re-set the left side points so I could time them the same as the right.

I noticed that with my alteration on the right side timing (for full advance), the points were now opening at T instead of F. ....okay. So I set the left side points to also open right at LT instead of LF.

Now with the strobe timing light both sides are pretty even and fall somewhere in between the two full advances lines when the engine is revved out. But to be honest, they don't seem quite as consistent, it seems more jumpy.

Before, when I had set them both to 'F' they were hitting solidly the second advance line, is that too far advanced though? What's with all this, something seems off.

thanks.

[Tim Miller]

The timing will not be rock steady with the motor running at 3500 + rpm but that's ok. Just make sure both L & R are between the two lines. When you let it idle down and it's near the "T" mark then you advancer needs R&R. If the advancer is in good condition it will be at or near the"F" make at idle.

Tim


t

Ok, so as usual things in practice are never as simple as in theory, although maybe I am needlessly complicating them.

I used the timing light to move the points plate so that the right side points where full advanced between the two advance lines. Of course moving the plate moves the points timing in opposite directions (i forgot this). So it became necessary to re-set the left side points so I could time them the same as the right.

I noticed that with my alteration on the right side timing (for full advance), the points were now opening at T instead of F. ....okay. So I set the left side points to also open right at LT instead of LF.

Now with the strobe timing light both sides are pretty even and fall somewhere in between the two full advances lines when the engine is revved out. But to be honest, they don't seem quite as consistent, it seems more jumpy.

Before, when I had set them both to 'F' they were hitting solidly the second advance line, is that too far advanced though? What's with all this, something seems off.

thanks.

[akpasta]

What do you mean? My advancer needs rest and relaxation? Or fixing? I'm not really sure what an advancer is, btw.

The bike seemed to run a bit quieter and smoother after retarding the timing like this, I seemed to have lower rpms in a given gear at a given speed than I did when I set each point at F. But something still seems wrong if both points set to F makes the full advance at the second line.

[Tim Miller]

It's a old grease monkey term for rebuild & repair.

If your total timing is somewere between the two marks on both cylinders and at the "F" mark at idle then your golden.

Tim

What do you mean? My advancer needs rest and relaxation? Or fixing? I'm not really sure what an advancer is, btw.

The bike seemed to run a bit quieter and smoother after retarding the timing like this, I seemed to have lower rpms in a given gear at a given speed than I did when I set each point at F. But something still seems wrong if both points set to F makes the full advance at the second line.

[LOUD MOUSE]

I'm sure you can add your timing formula to the FAQ section. ........................lm

Ed,
It's not that difficult. Try it sometime. It just takes a #2 phillips, flat blade and a not so rare timing light to do the job right. It's not brain surgery or rocket science. But at the end of the simple testing you will know exactly were your timing is. And were Mr. Honda and all his engineers desgned it to be. If you need more help understanding this feel free to PM me so I can help you. You should really consider revising your tuneup recipe to actually use the trusty timing light. If even one member tunes up there motor without verifing what there total timing is.....thats just asking for disaster.

Tim

You must have good luck keeping that area calm enough (engine is not timed so will have a lot of vibration) to get a screwdriver on the screw and then have the timing stay where you started to tighten the plate screw as the fact when you tighten the screw it will warp the plate and either advance or retard that points timing.
This is the reason (plus many folks don't have or know how to use a timing light) I have offered the simple and effective to do the "in your garage" points adjustments.
Granted I am aware that once my idea is used it can be fine tuned with a timing light as now all that is required is to adjust the plate a couple thousands.
Ever heard "your carburetor problem is in direct proportion to the miss adjustment of your points?. . . ...............lm

Yes, Like I said both cylinder must be the same at full advance. After you set the points @ .014 on the right side adjust the points plate till you get the total timing set between the two marks and lock it down, then check the left side and adjust only the L points gap till it reads the same as the right. Its easy.

Tim

Do you use it to set each set while the engine is running?. ............lm

Yes, your advance spring maybe a little weak, but as long as the timing isn't jumping around at idle your OK. I do like to see the timing at idle as close to F as posible, but that's not always possible because of wear on the advancer stops. The most important thing for me is that the total timing at full advance say above 3500 RPM reads between the two full advance marks on both cylinders. No matter what it is idles. This is why I always use the strobe timing light. More often than not if you only set the timing for idle it will over advance the total timing at full throttle and sieze the pistons. The timing light is the cheepest insurance you can buy.

Tim

Ok, I get it. So if you could run the engine at like 500rpms it would be very close to the F mark, but when I'm idling at 1500 rpms, it's going to be a bit past the F mark.

So you use the strobe to make sure it doesn't advance too much at full advance. Is the case mark supposed to be in the middle of those two advance lines or before?

thanks.