Ugly Betty

[LOUD MOUSE]

Let's see what we can do here.
I'd say the shift arm is more 10:00 than 11:00.
The level of the foot lever can be/is a matter of where ya want to have your foot to be to lift or push down with comfort.
This assy has always had slack/slop and I never get concerned as when I push or lift the slack/slop is instantly gone as I apply a good solid movement with my foot.
That means I pay attention to that movement so things work.
May be ya have a warn shift drum or roller not allowing the shift fork to move past the high spot in the drum groove.
It's a very common cause for shift problem. .............lm

So, I'm trying to understand my shifting difficulties and I don't want to hijack Spargett's Restoration Log with more questions about my machine. I did reply to one of his posts about my difficulty in finding 2nd gear and wondered if my shift linkage was set properly. LM responded saying the shift arm should be indexed at 11 o'clock. That's where we left off and where this line of discovery continues...

I think my shift arm points to 11 o'clock but there may be time zone differences between Texas and me :) But how is the arm indexed? You can see in the pic that the shift shaft end is pretty mangled and has denied me a definitive punch mark. I can put the arm on any spline I choose but without marks I'm nowhere. Are there marks showing in the pic that I'm not seeing?

I wonder about the free-play in the shift linkage. The first pic shows the shifter at rest, and the second shows me lifting the shifter up to its point of resistance. The freeplay at the toe rubber is 5/8" (160 mm). I'm not sure what it should be, if anything at all.

At this point I don't know if my shifter shaft/linkage adjustments are the cause of the difficulty or if my shifting technique is no good. These are the symptoms:

1...difficulty shifting up from 1st to 2nd--I seem to arrive in neutral, and then when I try again, at lower rpm's it will shift. Downshifting from 2nd to 1st is fine.

2...for the life of me, I can't easily get into neutral from 1st. I don't get a neutral light and I have to stall the engine and then rock back and forth shifting up and down between 1st and 2nd in order to finally find neutral. It seems easier when I go from 2nd down the half-step to neutral than when I try going up from 1st to neutral.

In summary, my shift shaft indexing may be incorrect; my shifter linkage adjustment may need tweaking; my shifting technique may be wrong. Or maybe my clutch is not adjusted properly??

Any suggestions would be gratefully received.

Thanks,

Wilf

[Wilf]

Thanks Ed,

I'm going to try eliminating some easy stuff because I'm just a bit afraid of shift drum, roller, shift fork terms and whatever getting to know them might entail.

So for now, I'm not going to worry about the linkage freeplay. This evening I put a couple of squirts of grease into the clutch adjuster fitting and re-adjusted the clutch. I think I did it correctly--screwing in both cable ends completely, then loosening the adjuster locking bolt and working the adjuster left, right and then left again by 1/8". Then I tightened the adjuster bolt and set the engine case and lever adjusters to allow for 1/4" freeplay between the clutch lever and the perch.

Our weather should be good to ride tomorrow so I will give it a try. The next step would be to pull/yank/pry the shifter arm off the mangled shaft and rotate it CW by one spline, re-adjust the linkage and give that a try.

This is a lovely machine to ride (even though I can't quite shift it through the gears yet)!

Wilf

[e3steve]

To add an observation and opinion here, Wilf & Ed, it seems also that Wilf's clutch may be dragging, indicated by the 'box's reluctance to snick into neutral and, thus, also preventing smooth(er) shifting through the low gears.

Mine was/is displaying similar traits; I replaced my homemade (stainless steel) clutch lifter rod, the squared end of which looked akin to a sick mushroom, with a NOS Honda rod. Neutral is now a doddle to find, from either 1st or 2nd, so obviously the softer steel's mushrooming was causing poor clutch disengagement, even from the first moments after adjustment. I now have no drag at all.

BUT, my 2nd gear does have a tendency to become 'notchy' at times, even to the point that it will jump out of 'dog' & back in again in an instant, even under power! That, to me, smacks of worn dogs and poor shimming.

I'll soon be dropping the motor for surgery, now that my workshop improvements are progressing (bike lift!) and my engine jack has arrived. I can't be doing with back strain and knee pain any more!

[Wilf]

Thank-you for your observation Steve.

Over the last few days I have thought about my shifting problem. I'm going to try eliminating clutch drag as a cause. After that, I may have to look at the clutch lifter rod end for "sick mushrooming", and if that doesn't get results, then it's into technique or the more serious stuff!

And I wish I had a lift like yours--way easier on the back!

Thanks again,

Wilf

[e3steve]

Most welcome, Wilf! I'm in the UK all next week, but when I get back to the bike I'll post a photo of the lifter rod's end. It's usual for the ball bearing to cause a small indentation, though.

If your rod is OEM then you shouldn't have the drag problem unless your clutch is maladjusted or the friction material in the plates is swollen and, thus, screwed.

I only made my temporary lifter rod as my old OEM one was scored at the lip seal and leaking; the OEM rods are hardened, at least at each end.

[cknight]

For best shifting geometry, try to have the shift arm perpendicular to the shift rod. For what it's worth, the flat end of the clutch lifter rod is a separate insert, and I've had one fall out during right side cover installation. Probably a very unusual occurance, but just something else to watch for. Regards, Chase

[Wilf]

Thank-you, Chase! That makes sense. I had read that the arm should be indexed to 11 o'clock but it never dawned on me why that would make a difference. Now I know!

Wilf