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My stiff clutch mystery

Clutch, Transmission, Drive Chain, Sprockets
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R100
honda305.com Member
Posts: 332
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:02 pm

My stiff clutch mystery

Post by R100 » Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:56 pm

Did some searches and some reading here before posting.
First the basic info:
motor is a CP77 ("general export" model, many sent to us in Canada).
frame is a CB77.
I compared p/n's of all relevant parts that operate the clutch and they are all the same except the clutch cable, lever/perch, and handlebar.

I believe I know why it is stiff, I just can't figure out which part is the culprit.
As someone posted previously, the clutch thread arm should rest at about 7 o'clock in order to get proper leverage. Mine rests at 9 o'clock with both adjusters backed off completely.

Also posted by someone previously, the critical dimension in clutch cable length is the difference between inner and outer. RetroBikes list two cables with a difference of 5 1/4", 5 1/2", mine is 5 3/8" so that should be fine.

I suppose it could be the lever and perch, but I have nothing for comparison. They look like they could be original (scratches, dings, iffy threads) but original what? CP77? CB77? Other?

I am considering experiments:
cobble the old perch to get more inner cable at the bottom,
with Dremel, needle file, etc, shorten the outer cable sheath so as to get that 7 o'clock resting position.

NOTES:
everything clean and lubed
the rod seems correct (9 5/8") and the correct way round
Yes the #10 ball is in there.
with clutch basket screws/springs backed off I can operate the clutch in/out with my right thumb on the rod end and left hand on the basket
Attachments
clutch mech 004.JPG
clutch mech 004.JPG (163.62 KiB) Viewed 3928 times
clutch mech 006.JPG
clutch mech 006.JPG (152.52 KiB) Viewed 3928 times
clutch mech 002.JPG
clutch mech 002.JPG (202.94 KiB) Viewed 3928 times

mike in idaho
honda305.com Member
Posts: 411
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:18 pm
Location: orofino, idaho

Post by mike in idaho » Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:44 pm

In the first picture it appears that you dont have enough free-play in the cable. The arm of the release mechanism and the clutch cable are already past 90°. When the clutch lever is pulled in they will nearly in a straight line, that will make the clutch real hard to pull. You need a different cable or remove about 1/2 inch of the outer cable to get more free length. When the cable is the right length the release arm and the end of the cable will form a 90° angle when the clutch lever is pulled all the way to the grip. When the cable is set to the right length, then mount the cover on the engine and make the clutch adjustment by turning the center of the clutch lifter. Set up this way, you have the most mechanical advantage for the lightest pull.
'65 YG1
'65 CB160
'66 CL160
'66 CL77
'78 XS650
'79 GL1000
'69 T100R
'68 TR6
'69 T120
'72 750 Commando
my company car is a Kenworth

R100
honda305.com Member
Posts: 332
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:02 pm

Post by R100 » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:18 am

mike in idaho wrote:In the first picture it appears that you dont have enough free-play in the cable. The arm of the release mechanism and the clutch cable are already past 90°. When the clutch lever is pulled in they will nearly in a straight line, that will make the clutch real hard to pull. You need a different cable or remove about 1/2 inch of the outer cable to get more free length. When the cable is the right length the release arm and the end of the cable will form a 90° angle when the clutch lever is pulled all the way to the grip. When the cable is set to the right length, then mount the cover on the engine and make the clutch adjustment by turning the center of the clutch lifter. Set up this way, you have the most mechanical advantage for the lightest pull.
Thanks Mike, that's what I was thinking.
First I might try finding an actual CB77 lever and perch. As I said, I don't know exactly what that one is, but it is a wobbly mess and needs replacing anyway. Then I will have a better idea of how much to shorten the outer cable (fiddly job I bet).
Besides E-Bay, would you know where I can find a lever/perch set that is not "one size fits all" but specifically for a CB77?

mike in idaho
honda305.com Member
Posts: 411
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:18 pm
Location: orofino, idaho

Post by mike in idaho » Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:03 am

Most likely you will need to shorten the cable housing(or find a different cable) to make things work, all the lever assemblies out there are pretty much the same. I use a vise to hold the cable housing(vise grips would do also). After pulling the ferrule off the end and removing the plastic cover I use a pair of side cutters to grab the end of the housing and unwind it to where it needs cut. Cut it with a hacksaw or a three-cornered file. The ferrule will go back on the end, you may need to trim a bit more plastic to make it slide over. The trick is not to get in a hurry and nick the inner wire.
'65 YG1
'65 CB160
'66 CL160
'66 CL77
'78 XS650
'79 GL1000
'69 T100R
'68 TR6
'69 T120
'72 750 Commando
my company car is a Kenworth

R100
honda305.com Member
Posts: 332
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:02 pm

Post by R100 » Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:43 am

mike in idaho wrote:Most likely you will need to shorten the cable housing(or find a different cable) to make things work, all the lever assemblies out there are pretty much the same. I use a vise to hold the cable housing(vise grips would do also). After pulling the ferrule off the end and removing the plastic cover I use a pair of side cutters to grab the end of the housing and unwind it to where it needs cut. Cut it with a hacksaw or a three-cornered file. The ferrule will go back on the end, you may need to trim a bit more plastic to make it slide over. The trick is not to get in a hurry and nick the inner wire.
I like that method of shortening the cable. I am quite steady with a Dremel and cutoff wheel, but one hiccup and there goes $$$.

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Bob750
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Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:41 pm
Location: Long Beach, CA

Post by Bob750 » Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:55 am

I shortened my Dream's throttle cable sheath with flush cutters for the plastic and diagonal cutters for the steel spiral. I first unwound the spiral to where I thought it should be, then snipped it, then tweaked it back into the proper roundness with needle nose pliers so it would receive the ferrule. Solved my long jacket/short cable problem.
Mine: '74 CB750 K4 -- Hers: '64 CA78
Had: '75 CB550 K, '79 CT90

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